Comments on: Interpreting the Temptation http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/ The Life and Times of Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah Tue, 04 Mar 2014 16:51:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Sibyl http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-3600 Sibyl Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:52:38 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-3600 Sorry - it's late and one sentence did not make sense. Here it is again: The way I have come to think of the Trinity, is that God can be three separate beings in time, space and history (in His visits to temporal earth, His presence in eternal Heaven) and yet completely unified (congruent, completely in agreement) in spirit, mind, will, emotions, purpose, presence, power (and probably many other ways) so as to be one. God can also impart Himself, His power, His Word into a message entrusted to angels that it caused Ezekiel and others to believe the angel was God. That power of God's Word can change, strengthen, refine, heal, deliver, convict and save the human being (Psalm 107:20) Is that the power of the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit? Or all three? The Scriptures ascribe the same power and attributes (Truth, Love and Life) to all three. Sorry – it’s late and one sentence did not make sense. Here it is again:

The way I have come to think of the Trinity, is that God can be three separate beings in time, space and history (in His visits to temporal earth, His presence in eternal Heaven) and yet completely unified (congruent, completely in agreement) in spirit, mind, will, emotions, purpose, presence, power (and probably many other ways) so as to be one.

God can also impart Himself, His power, His Word into a message entrusted to angels that it caused Ezekiel and others to believe the angel was God. That power of God’s Word can change, strengthen, refine, heal, deliver, convict and save the human being (Psalm 107:20) Is that the power of the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit? Or all three? The Scriptures ascribe the same power and attributes (Truth, Love and Life) to all three.

]]> By: Sibyl http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-3599 Sibyl Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:35:21 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-3599 Several passages of Scripture support the claim that Jesus is God. John Chapter 1..." In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God..." "...baptizing them in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit." Jesus accepted worship. Thomas said, 'My Lord and my God." (John 20:28) Then there is Hebrews 1:3 and Colossians 1:15-20. The way I have come to think of the Trinity, and how God can be three and yet completely unified so as to be one (congruent, completely in agreement) in spirit, mind, will, emotions, purpose, presence, power...and probably many other ways. The great Icon of the Trinity painted by Rublev also emphasizes the one-ness and exact likeness of the three persons, their unity and mutual love, attention, concern, support of the others. There is an empty space at the table where the three are seated...I have read that it is the space for the Bride of Christ, His beloved followers, that we are invited to dine and dwell with God at His table. Jesus prayed that His Church would be one as He, The Father and The Spirit are one. (Sadly that has often not been the case, even in married Christian or Messianic Jewish couples). What a wonderful blog, with peace and good will in the discussion. Thank you, Rabbi Leman. Several passages of Scripture support the claim that Jesus is God.
John Chapter 1…” In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God…”
“…baptizing them in the Name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.”
Jesus accepted worship. Thomas said, ‘My Lord and my God.” (John 20:28)
Then there is Hebrews 1:3 and Colossians 1:15-20.

The way I have come to think of the Trinity, and how God can be three and yet completely unified so as to be one (congruent, completely in agreement) in spirit, mind, will, emotions, purpose, presence, power…and probably many other ways.

The great Icon of the Trinity painted by Rublev also emphasizes the one-ness and exact likeness of the three persons, their unity and mutual love, attention, concern, support of the others. There is an empty space at the table where the three are seated…I have read that it is the space for the Bride of Christ, His beloved followers, that we are invited to dine and dwell with God at His table.

Jesus prayed that His Church would be one as He, The Father and The Spirit are one. (Sadly that has often not been the case, even in married Christian or Messianic Jewish couples).

What a wonderful blog, with peace and good will in the discussion. Thank you, Rabbi Leman.

]]> By: Richard Worden Wilson http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-2205 Richard Worden Wilson Thu, 03 Mar 2011 08:46:52 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-2205 Wow, what a wonderful conversation here. I've been a believer in God in and through Jesus for about 34 years; spent a lot of early believing time and some later trying to know the God of the Bible better and sort out the trinity questions. Most of my conclusions coalesced in questions. Either-or reasoning and its attendant pre-suppositions tend to determine the conclusions (Derek, it seems you are inclined in this direction). A few years ago after another close study (as careful a study as my meager intellect and education would allow) I decided that the Scriptures didn't answer the questions that Nicea and Chalcedon did. Tradition over scripture seems the human solution to most questions (pardon the cynicism). If anyone responds to this I may say more; right now I'm probably just thinking to myself, so I'll stop. Wow, what a wonderful conversation here. I’ve been a believer in God in and through Jesus for about 34 years; spent a lot of early believing time and some later trying to know the God of the Bible better and sort out the trinity questions. Most of my conclusions coalesced in questions. Either-or reasoning and its attendant pre-suppositions tend to determine the conclusions (Derek, it seems you are inclined in this direction). A few years ago after another close study (as careful a study as my meager intellect and education would allow) I decided that the Scriptures didn’t answer the questions that Nicea and Chalcedon did. Tradition over scripture seems the human solution to most questions (pardon the cynicism). If anyone responds to this I may say more; right now I’m probably just thinking to myself, so I’ll stop.

]]> By: Renee http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-1003 Renee Fri, 14 Jan 2011 20:29:38 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-1003 thanks for responding, i didn't think of it that way, thats pretty cool (smile) thanks for responding, i didn’t think of it that way, thats pretty cool (smile)

]]> By: Suzie Payne http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-1000 Suzie Payne Fri, 14 Jan 2011 19:13:47 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-1000 Renee: I don't believe G-d is offended at all. Instead, I think He's pretty pleased that instead of just agreeing with anything and everything we've been taught, we want to know and understand Him, His Son and His Word better. If my child never cared enough about me to ask why I say/do/think certain things I wouldn't think they love me very much. Renee:

I don’t believe G-d is offended at all. Instead, I think He’s pretty pleased that instead of just agreeing with anything and everything we’ve been taught, we want to know and understand Him, His Son and His Word better. If my child never cared enough about me to ask why I say/do/think certain things I wouldn’t think they love me very much.

]]> By: James http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-995 James Fri, 14 Jan 2011 16:13:49 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-995 <i>I was just wondering does anybody think that this offends G-d whether we believe or not believe in “trinity” as long as we Love Him and understad the foundation, like i said in the above blog..</i> This is just my personal opinion, but I think God is highly amused at how we imagine Him and His purposes. It must be like being the parent of a bunch of 2 and 3 year olds who have 2 and 3 year old ways of conceptualizing the world around them, who their parents are, and how they fit into their universe. I was just wondering does anybody think that this offends G-d whether we believe or not believe in “trinity” as long as we Love Him and understad the foundation, like i said in the above blog..

This is just my personal opinion, but I think God is highly amused at how we imagine Him and His purposes. It must be like being the parent of a bunch of 2 and 3 year olds who have 2 and 3 year old ways of conceptualizing the world around them, who their parents are, and how they fit into their universe.

]]> By: Renee http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-994 Renee Fri, 14 Jan 2011 15:56:09 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-994 Derek i just read the post and all i have to say is WOW!! there was some pretty heavy debates, WOW! but it was good. Derek i just read the post and all i have to say is WOW!! there was some pretty heavy debates, WOW! but it was good.

]]> By: Renee http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-990 Renee Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:59:07 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-990 good point it a little difficult to understand what to keep and what to hold on to. good point it a little difficult to understand what to keep and what to hold on to.

]]> By: Renee http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-989 Renee Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:50:08 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-989 Oh another question, (you guys have created a blogging monster(smile)). what do you guys think about the aramaic NT? Oh another question, (you guys have created a blogging monster(smile)). what do you guys think about the aramaic NT?

]]> By: Renee http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-988 Renee Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:45:59 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-988 I was just wondering does anybody think that this offends G-d whether we believe or not believe in "trinity" as long as we Love Him and understad the foundation, like i said in the above blog, i think sometimes that you get misunderstood when you say you don't believe. but thank G-d in our day you don't get killed behind it, from what i understand christians were killing christians behind this doctrine. i don't have all the answers and i'm glad that we can blog about this and other issues, this is my first time blogging so i like this. (smile) I was just wondering does anybody think that this offends G-d whether we believe or not believe in “trinity” as long as we Love Him and understad the foundation, like i said in the above blog, i think sometimes that you get misunderstood when you say you don’t believe. but thank G-d in our day you don’t get killed behind it, from what i understand christians were killing christians behind this doctrine. i don’t have all the answers and i’m glad that we can blog about this and other issues, this is my first time blogging so i like this. (smile)

]]> By: Renee http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-987 Renee Fri, 14 Jan 2011 14:36:24 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-987 as seth said the issue that wont go away(smile), and i'm glad to know that either way has no bearing on how much i love the father for sending his son, i much i love Yeshua for laying down his life for us and HIs resurrection and the name that is above every name, and the Holy Spirit for guidance and opening my eyes to scripture, you know there have been times when i was reading a passage and it's like the light bulb just came on, i love those times. as seth said the issue that wont go away(smile), and i’m glad to know that either way has no bearing on how much i love the father for sending his son, i much i love Yeshua for laying down his life for us and HIs resurrection and the name that is above every name, and the Holy Spirit for guidance and opening my eyes to scripture, you know there have been times when i was reading a passage and it’s like the light bulb just came on, i love those times.

]]> By: Wendeth http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-967 Wendeth Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:39:18 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-967 Thank you Renee for your question (and follow ups) and Derek for continuing to answer the questions. The trinity is one I've also been studying from the Messianic movement perspective (for lack of a better description) for a little while. I also am evaluating what of the typical American church I need to throw out completely and what needs to stay and be used further in my faith. Someone who I am close to also began attending a messianic meeting of the minds and they also began to doubt the trinity. I'm not sure where they are on the subject, but I fully intend to forward this blog to them and hope they can gain some valuable insight as I have. As always, Derek, you back up your words with literature and most importantly scripture. It's a great thing and I always appreciate it. Thank you Renee for your question (and follow ups) and Derek for continuing to answer the questions. The trinity is one I’ve also been studying from the Messianic movement perspective (for lack of a better description) for a little while. I also am evaluating what of the typical American church I need to throw out completely and what needs to stay and be used further in my faith. Someone who I am close to also began attending a messianic meeting of the minds and they also began to doubt the trinity. I’m not sure where they are on the subject, but I fully intend to forward this blog to them and hope they can gain some valuable insight as I have.

As always, Derek, you back up your words with literature and most importantly scripture. It’s a great thing and I always appreciate it.

]]> By: William http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-966 William Fri, 14 Jan 2011 00:34:52 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-966 Information noted and points well taken! Todah Rabbah! William Information noted and points well taken! Todah Rabbah! William

]]> By: yeshuain http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-961 yeshuain Thu, 13 Jan 2011 22:09:39 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-961 Thank you, William. My seminary is MJTI which you can see at MJTI.org. I finished the requirements for my ordination here and continue with classes each summer to keep my mind supple and develop new knowledge in various areas of rabbinic literature. The rest of my graduate education was at Emory University. I think a combination of university and seminary graduate study is a good combination. Thank you, William. My seminary is MJTI which you can see at MJTI.org. I finished the requirements for my ordination here and continue with classes each summer to keep my mind supple and develop new knowledge in various areas of rabbinic literature. The rest of my graduate education was at Emory University. I think a combination of university and seminary graduate study is a good combination.

]]> By: William http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-960 William Thu, 13 Jan 2011 21:58:29 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-960 This is a bit off topic Reb Derek, but you brought up an interesting point. Some congregational leaders are well-intentioned but uninformed. We have both very likely seen living proof of the old adage, "A little knowledge is dangerous." I am hoping in the near future you and some of your colleagues will be able to establish a Yeshiva-Bible Institute (or whatever you might call it) even if it is only one course monthly on three days that month. That might help cut down on misinformation but if this blog is any indication, we could probably count on some spirited discussion during those classes (but that is life in a beit midrash). Sincerely, William This is a bit off topic Reb Derek, but you brought up an interesting point. Some congregational leaders are well-intentioned but uninformed. We have both very likely seen living proof of the old adage, “A little knowledge is dangerous.” I am hoping in the near future you and some of your colleagues will be able to establish a Yeshiva-Bible Institute (or whatever you might call it) even if it is only one course monthly on three days that month. That might help cut down on misinformation but if this blog is any indication, we could probably count on some spirited discussion during those classes (but that is life in a beit midrash). Sincerely, William

]]> By: James http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-958 James Thu, 13 Jan 2011 21:51:35 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-958 Kind of figured you meant the Trinity, Seth. I just thought I'd add some levity to an otherwise heavy situation. I wonder if an inch of snow on the ground qualifies as "snow bound" in Atlanta? Maybe Derek's kids had a snow day all week long. ;-) Kind of figured you meant the Trinity, Seth. I just thought I’d add some levity to an otherwise heavy situation. I wonder if an inch of snow on the ground qualifies as “snow bound” in Atlanta? Maybe Derek’s kids had a snow day all week long. ;-)

]]> By: Seth http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-955 Seth Thu, 13 Jan 2011 21:30:23 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-955 LOL, I meant the Trinity. Having a long discussion on facebook about it too. LOL, I meant the Trinity. Having a long discussion on facebook about it too.

]]> By: James http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-950 James Thu, 13 Jan 2011 16:20:38 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-950 <i>The issue that just won’t go away!</i> Snow in Atlanta? No, it'll melt. The issue that just won’t go away!

Snow in Atlanta? No, it’ll melt.

]]> By: Seth http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-949 Seth Thu, 13 Jan 2011 14:55:14 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-949 The issue that just won't go away! The issue that just won’t go away!

]]> By: Suzie Payne http://yeshuaincontext.com/2010/10/interpreting-the-temptation/#comment-931 Suzie Payne Thu, 13 Jan 2011 04:40:34 +0000 http://yeshuaincontext.com/?p=141#comment-931 May I offer a different illustration that I like better? H2O is the chemical formula we know as water. H2O can be found as liquid water, steam and ice. In either of these three forms it is still H2O. G-d seems to be found in many forms, not just the three (the cloud in the wilderness and over the First Temple, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch when cutting covenant with Avraham, etc.) May I offer a different illustration that I like better? H2O is the chemical formula we know as water. H2O can be found as liquid water, steam and ice. In either of these three forms it is still H2O. G-d seems to be found in many forms, not just the three (the cloud in the wilderness and over the First Temple, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch when cutting covenant with Avraham, etc.)

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